but it's only one part of. >> as we've learned from the history of civil rights and women's rights that substantive equality does not necessarily follow directly on the heels of civil rights achievement. you get brown v board but you don't necessarily get desegregated schools. >> quite the opposite. >> right. the focus on the legal right, while totally understandable because equal rights under the law seems like a basic starting point for any kind of egalitarian politics. it's a piece. one of the things -- i think that the analogy made to abortion is quite instructive. the energy with ruth bader ginsburg this morning. one of the problems with the way abortion has evolved as an issue was that it was disarticulated from broader reproductive justice issues. so that abortion sort of became like a consumer right that an individual could purchase approximate she could afford it. >> yep. >> other people would lose the right because it wasn't understood as a matter of justice. it was understood as a kind of consumer right. with marriage, the same danger is there. that the legal right to access